» My experience with mister the Bauer - what should not be done when tuning an ep3, absolutely not!!

olivenoire · Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226

Hi Thomas,

very thank you for the sharing.
Actually the Deka injectors The Bauer fit are so loud I can't hear if anything goes wrong or any clicking inside the motor. The injectors are very loud so the man in charge of the rebuild remove the valve cover to check he perfectly or not the clearance of the valve!)
I will see at last if it is a problem or no. I hope I will not have to change the block too fastly. Anyway I will strictly respect the warming time because got some boost, for sure.

About the water radiator :
My only experience is about ep3. I really don't know nothing about dc2 nut...
I've bought a elm237 bluetooth to have an idea of IAT or water temp. As a result the only concern after check oil and water temp after some hard usage is oil temperature.
I've never got any problem with water temp. Unable to reach more than 100°C as far the car is runing.
The real issue is oil temp. Probably because of an under dimensionned and an non-efficient placement of the oil cooler. I actually run with a 16row/200mm wide placed behind the water radiator. I will put a 13row/300mm in front of water cooler.
For exemple actually with this radiator I need to slow down at the end of NOS (wich is finally not bad) because the oil temp reach 135°C.
I hope to be able ti stand 120°C with this new configuation.
I run with 15w50 gulf racing ester and and this temp, oil pressure is near 2 bar as far I remember.

Matz CTR · 05.05.2014, 20:39

With the OEM water cooler of the EP3 you wont have any problems. I am using ist with 5xxBHP and the water temp hardly reaches 90°C. I have intercooler and oilcooler installed in front of the water cooler and still there are no problems at all.

With the EP3 Turbo there are only a few parameters you should have an eye on if you are pushing it. The most important is the EGT. With the turbo behind the engine and not on the gear box you can have serious temperature issues with it in the 6th gear at high speeds. I dont know the diameter of your exhaust, but the bigger the better. My WAES could not help much with these problems, that is why I had a new manifold constructed in the last weeks. With Garret the inlet turbine temperature must not exceed 950°C.

Oil temperature also is an issue, but only if the oilcooler is to small or like here cooler number 3 in the row (intercooler, water, oil). If you replace it oil temp should not be a problem. If the temperature is still a problem you have the option of replacing it with a bigger or more efficient one (if space permitts), or try to passively cool the oil with cooling ribs. If you use oil like 10W60 higher temperatures of the oil like 135°C are also ok. As I do not use my Civic in winter anymore there is no more reason to stay with 5W40 for me.

This season I will start to also monitor the temperature of the gear oil, but I am not expecting any problems there. It is more to have an eye on it. The temperature will be a higher than OEM due to LSD and more than 500NM, butI still think it is ok. If it isnt I will also install a cooler here (if I find a place for it

).

BHT had the intercooler "installed" the way it is with you now, but SAR replaced it with a more efficient intercooler with in- and outlet on the same side. This way the intercooler can also be higher as you have no additional pipe below it.

With OEM fuel piping you wont have issues as long as the pump and the nozzles are replaced. More for optical reason I also have a fuel rail (K-tuned) installed.

olivenoire · Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226

Hi Matz, thank you for your reply.
Ya that what I think too. Watercooler OEM or not is not an issue on a EP3. On a dc3, I don't know

In my mind the kkk k24 the Bauer fit in my car is not able to handle so much temprature. Actually after the tuning the EGT mx is about 750-800°C. Anyway I will for not try not to go further than 800°C. Seems ok at the moment.
The down pipe is full 3" (76mm) aand the exhaust too.

About the oil cooler, I will try to change the little with a much bigger and mount in directly about the FMIC. This is one of the last modification I will do. (Expert change the kkk k24 against a little precision turbo:) )
And same for me I use to use 15w50 gulf racing ester oil. Sometime 10w60, I will see.

Since the motor was open and checked, the motor does not smoke anymore at cold. Obviously the Bauer did not change any gasket on my car. particulary the valve gasket...

Now the tuning is near ended, just need to change the oil cooler and the intercooler. I've bought one with I/O at the same side. As a result I will be able to remove the stupid/awfull/non efficient piping the bauer fit in my car.

What i can say is the kkk k24 7200 is absolutely too weak to handle 1bar during the full rpm range.
This turbo is able to handle 1bar from 4500 to 7500rpm. After what he is unable to boost more than 0.85bar till red line!!!

Matz CTR · 13.05.2014, 14:42

Nice graphs, how did you calculate them?

thomas15111983 · 13.05.2014, 17:10

Hi Oli, the graphs show what you say. The Turbine is to small you need a larger turbo.
nice torque curve downwards 5000 but over it its weak.
For my opinion the way i kick it over the track is 4500 above.

But nice to hear its running without problems.
Matze...was fährstn du für ATWs auf 5xxPs? Ich hab schon mit 320 ps innerhalb von 2500km 6 gelenke verblasen.
Hab bei meinem jeztt sleeved b18 auf 2l auch vor die leistung 5xxps zu fahren, mache mir aber ernsthafte sorgen um antriebsstrang. Habe Mfactory stage 2 drin glaub (475 whp angeblich), aber ich mach mir mehr ums getriebe sorgen. Würde ihm den vollen Druck daher erst im 5. geben. Was hast du so für Erfahrungen damit?
Gruß

olivenoire · Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226

@Matz : the first one (power) comes from the software virtualdyno -> http://www.virtualdyno.net/
Need some adjustement but pretty accurate in good condition.

The 2 others graph are an extract from a software the man is actually writing. The 2 software helps him fine tuning the engine without a dyno. I know and I clearly understand some people can't stand this way of tuning... But this is better than Ralf Baier way, for sure

@thomas,
your right, actually I will recover my car this week end and will this season with this turbo.
I know it is possible to upgrade the kkk k24 to be able to earn some hp. Or maybe I will try to find a precision turbo with the same size... Not an urgent matter , I will probably not drive very often at 1 bar but more probably at 0,6bar.
But clearly with this turbo I've lost all the "charm" of an honda motor

Once again the dark side effekt of mister Ralf Baier

thomas15111983 · 16.05.2014, 07:39

thats sounds great....maybe youre able to post a video?

olivenoire · Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226

I'll catch the car tomorow morning near Paris and will be back at the evening.
After will I'll try to post a video, for sure!

I can't stand after all the time!

maxrev.de · Gast

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olivenoire Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226	05.05.2014, 13:30 zitieren Hi Thomas, very thank you for the sharing. Actually the Deka injectors The Bauer fit are so loud I can't hear if anything goes wrong or any clicking inside the motor. The injectors are very loud so the man in charge of the rebuild remove the valve cover to check he perfectly or not the clearance of the valve!) I will see at last if it is a problem or no. I hope I will not have to change the block too fastly. Anyway I will strictly respect the warming time because got some boost, for sure. About the water radiator : My only experience is about ep3. I really don't know nothing about dc2 nut... I've bought a elm237 bluetooth to have an idea of IAT or water temp. As a result the only concern after check oil and water temp after some hard usage is oil temperature. I've never got any problem with water temp. Unable to reach more than 100°C as far the car is runing. The real issue is oil temp. Probably because of an under dimensionned and an non-efficient placement of the oil cooler. I actually run with a 16row/200mm wide placed behind the water radiator. I will put a 13row/300mm in front of water cooler. For exemple actually with this radiator I need to slow down at the end of NOS (wich is finally not bad) because the oil temp reach 135°C. I hope to be able ti stand 120°C with this new configuation. I run with 15w50 gulf racing ester and and this temp, oil pressure is near 2 bar as far I remember. Gefällt mir Teilen twittern 1x bearbeitet
▲	pn

Matz CTR General Name: Matthias Geschlecht: Fahrzeug: Honda Civic EP3 Turbo, Renault Megane RS Anmeldedatum: 03.12.2006 Beiträge: 3466 Wohnort: NRW	05.05.2014, 20:39 zitieren With the OEM water cooler of the EP3 you wont have any problems. I am using ist with 5xxBHP and the water temp hardly reaches 90°C. I have intercooler and oilcooler installed in front of the water cooler and still there are no problems at all. With the EP3 Turbo there are only a few parameters you should have an eye on if you are pushing it. The most important is the EGT. With the turbo behind the engine and not on the gear box you can have serious temperature issues with it in the 6th gear at high speeds. I dont know the diameter of your exhaust, but the bigger the better. My WAES could not help much with these problems, that is why I had a new manifold constructed in the last weeks. With Garret the inlet turbine temperature must not exceed 950°C. Oil temperature also is an issue, but only if the oilcooler is to small or like here cooler number 3 in the row (intercooler, water, oil). If you replace it oil temp should not be a problem. If the temperature is still a problem you have the option of replacing it with a bigger or more efficient one (if space permitts), or try to passively cool the oil with cooling ribs. If you use oil like 10W60 higher temperatures of the oil like 135°C are also ok. As I do not use my Civic in winter anymore there is no more reason to stay with 5W40 for me. This season I will start to also monitor the temperature of the gear oil, but I am not expecting any problems there. It is more to have an eye on it. The temperature will be a higher than OEM due to LSD and more than 500NM, butI still think it is ok. If it isnt I will also install a cooler here (if I find a place for it ). BHT had the intercooler "installed" the way it is with you now, but SAR replaced it with a more efficient intercooler with in- and outlet on the same side. This way the intercooler can also be higher as you have no additional pipe below it. With OEM fuel piping you wont have issues as long as the pump and the nozzles are replaced. More for optical reason I also have a fuel rail (K-tuned) installed.
▲	pn

olivenoire Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226	13.05.2014, 13:30 zitieren Hi Matz, thank you for your reply. Ya that what I think too. Watercooler OEM or not is not an issue on a EP3. On a dc3, I don't know In my mind the kkk k24 the Bauer fit in my car is not able to handle so much temprature. Actually after the tuning the EGT mx is about 750-800°C. Anyway I will for not try not to go further than 800°C. Seems ok at the moment. The down pipe is full 3" (76mm) aand the exhaust too. About the oil cooler, I will try to change the little with a much bigger and mount in directly about the FMIC. This is one of the last modification I will do. (Expert change the kkk k24 against a little precision turbo:) ) And same for me I use to use 15w50 gulf racing ester oil. Sometime 10w60, I will see. Since the motor was open and checked, the motor does not smoke anymore at cold. Obviously the Bauer did not change any gasket on my car. particulary the valve gasket... Now the tuning is near ended, just need to change the oil cooler and the intercooler. I've bought one with I/O at the same side. As a result I will be able to remove the stupid/awfull/non efficient piping the bauer fit in my car. What i can say is the kkk k24 7200 is absolutely too weak to handle 1bar during the full rpm range. This turbo is able to handle 1bar from 4500 to 7500rpm. After what he is unable to boost more than 0.85bar till red line!!! Power curve.. probably to optimistic by a minimum of 30hp! 10292277_10203859239623838_1184218331446313719_n.jpg - [Bild vergrößern] Here a comparasion (accelerating curve) with my car @0.6bar (Blue) my car @1.0bar (violet) a 330bhp rotrex k20 (red) 10313629_10203859119860844_2208977553264631900_n.jpg - [Bild vergrößern] Zoom-- rotrex against turbo 10369747_10203859100340356_8526064057887395298_n.jpg - [Bild vergrößern] 1x bearbeitet
▲	pn

Matz CTR General Name: Matthias Geschlecht: Fahrzeug: Honda Civic EP3 Turbo, Renault Megane RS Anmeldedatum: 03.12.2006 Beiträge: 3466 Wohnort: NRW	13.05.2014, 14:42 zitieren Nice graphs, how did you calculate them?
▲	pn

thomas15111983 Elite Name: Thomas Geschlecht: Fahrzeug: Black DC2 Turbo - Funcar...... FN3 - Daily Anmeldedatum: 20.02.2007 Beiträge: 1386 Wohnort: Tamm	13.05.2014, 17:10 zitieren Hi Oli, the graphs show what you say. The Turbine is to small you need a larger turbo. nice torque curve downwards 5000 but over it its weak. For my opinion the way i kick it over the track is 4500 above. But nice to hear its running without problems. Matze...was fährstn du für ATWs auf 5xxPs? Ich hab schon mit 320 ps innerhalb von 2500km 6 gelenke verblasen. Hab bei meinem jeztt sleeved b18 auf 2l auch vor die leistung 5xxps zu fahren, mache mir aber ernsthafte sorgen um antriebsstrang. Habe Mfactory stage 2 drin glaub (475 whp angeblich), aber ich mach mir mehr ums getriebe sorgen. Würde ihm den vollen Druck daher erst im 5. geben. Was hast du so für Erfahrungen damit? Gruß
▲	pn

olivenoire Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226	13.05.2014, 19:27 zitieren @Matz : the first one (power) comes from the software virtualdyno -> http://www.virtualdyno.net/ Need some adjustement but pretty accurate in good condition. The 2 others graph are an extract from a software the man is actually writing. The 2 software helps him fine tuning the engine without a dyno. I know and I clearly understand some people can't stand this way of tuning... But this is better than Ralf Baier way, for sure @thomas, your right, actually I will recover my car this week end and will this season with this turbo. I know it is possible to upgrade the kkk k24 to be able to earn some hp. Or maybe I will try to find a precision turbo with the same size... Not an urgent matter , I will probably not drive very often at 1 bar but more probably at 0,6bar. But clearly with this turbo I've lost all the "charm" of an honda motor Once again the dark side effekt of mister Ralf Baier Verfasst am: 16.05.2014, 07:16 zitieren Finaly maps are now finished Actually the car 🚗 make 7,9 seconds measured with log at 100-200kmh @ 1 bar in 5th gear Lot of torque 450nm instead of power 100-200kmh
▲	pn

thomas15111983 Elite Name: Thomas Geschlecht: Fahrzeug: Black DC2 Turbo - Funcar...... FN3 - Daily Anmeldedatum: 20.02.2007 Beiträge: 1386 Wohnort: Tamm	16.05.2014, 07:39 zitieren thats sounds great....maybe youre able to post a video?
▲	pn

olivenoire Senior Anmeldedatum: 11.04.2012 Beiträge: 226	16.05.2014, 12:17 zitieren I'll catch the car tomorow morning near Paris and will be back at the evening. After will I'll try to post a video, for sure! I can't stand after all the time! Verfasst am: 26.05.2014, 06:50 zitieren Some news about my ep3 The car is his new tuning (map) @ 0.6bar is real pleasure to drive. not enough boost under 3000rpm because of the long and ineficient piping. Lot of torque at 4-5000rpm and finally power 'till 8200 rpm. The car is drivable, unfortunately the wg spring (0.4bar) and the solenoid can't handle to control the boost under 0.5 or 0.6 bar. A little bit frustrating. My right foot will do the work At the other side, in "full boost" the car becomes to be very agressive, lot of torque @ 5000rpm, easy to reach 1 or even 1.2bar, but the turbo clearly lacks power over 7-7500rpm and can't handle 1 or 1.2 bar. With this amount of torque, the cars because very hard to drive excerpt in straight line. Direction goes left and right, probably because of the geomtry of front wheels and probably becaus eof quaife lsd too Some pictures. Okay I know this is not a show car but clearly this is better than what was done by BHT DSC_0746.JPG - [Bild vergrößern] 1x bearbeitet
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maxrev.de Gast	12.01.2015, 09:18 zitieren Mach mit! Wenn Dir die Beiträge zum Thread "My experience with mister the Bauer - what should not be done when tuning an ep3, absolutely not!!" gefallen haben oder Du noch Fragen hast oder Ergänzungen machen möchtest, solltest Du Dich gleich bei uns anmelden: Registrierte Mitglieder genießen die folgenden Vorteile: ✔ kostenlose Mitgliedschaft ✔ keine Werbung ✔ direkter Austausch mit Gleichgesinnten ✔ neue Fragen stellen oder Diskussionen starten ✔ schnelle Hilfe bei Problemen ✔ Bilder und Videos hochladen ✔ und vieles mehr...
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